Saturday 29 June 2019

UPSC Interview transcript of IFS Dhananjay Singh Yadav (AIR-95, 2018)

UPSC Interview transcript of IFS Dhananjay Singh Yadav (AIR-95, 2018)

Performance in mains will decide whether you will be on the list, and interview will determine where on the list. If things go south in the interview, one can find themselves out of the list altogether (unless 100+ marks above cutoff). Most people will be in the 45-50% range in mains marking, but interview marks can range from 50-75%. The delta from interview can make or break your entire year’s effort or land you in a service not of your dreams.



UPSC Interview transcript of IFS Dhananjay Singh Yadav (AIR-95, 2018)


I must have watched innumerable videos of toppers’ mock interview in January. I found the one by AIR 299 (2017) to be really good in terms of articulation and conduct. In this month, I also perused my DAF – home state, interests, college activities, work experience, et al, and prepared for them extensively (see under Interview in my OneNote). I decided to go for 3 mocks in total before my interview. (Also finally, entered the famed gullies of ORN for the first time)

  • I went to KSG first on last day of January. The panel was great and it was challenging to keep up with their line of questioning. My mock itself was terrible, but walked away with good feedback. You can also do a one-on-one with the founder, but I couldn’t go for it as it could be only done at 8 am.
  • I called up Samkalp next, and realised they provide two mocks. In second mock I stumbled a bit, but third went great. The people here take great interest in ensuring you are well prepared from all aspects – I was asked to take home state sessions and plethora of DAF analysis and one-on-ones. I ended up coming once more for DAF analysis (not a fruitful day, as I was already comfortable with my DAF), and an impromptu mock.
Important pointers I reminded myself in the run-up to the interview based on the feedback I got:
  1. Sit confidently and keep hand gestures under control
  2. Listen carefully to what the interviewer is asking
  3. Think before you speak, prepare a quick coherent structure in mind
  4. Do not start speaking until they are done
  5. Keep your answers short, and
  6. Drink water in case you need time to think or panic at any point
Interview was also exciting as I got a reason to buy new clothes, after what felt like eons had passed with me wearing same old pajamas. It’s important to not only look confident and composed, but also feel that. I went with a charcoal grey suit with a light blue shirt.

I had a nice long sleep the night before, and my father drove me to Dholpur House. It was drizzling that afternoon; one of those perfect Delhi spring days. Lot of nervous and excited faces around, and I too had a stomach full of butterflies.

Interview date: 20th Feb 2019, afternoon session
Board: Smita Nagaraj madam

Optional- PSIR
Fifth person to go out of six (should have carried proper lunch)
Time: ~30 minutes.
The 5-10 minutes wait outside the interview room will be the ultimate test of your nerves. I gave myself a TEDx talk right there to ward off any thoughts about the interview itself. A buzzer went off and the staff held the door open me. I nodded a thank you, took a long breath, and walked in.

There were five persons seated on a circular table. Chairperson madam was at 12, I was to be seated at 6. M1 was at my 10, M2 at 8, M3 at 4, M4 at 2. I greeted madam a soft good afternoon and was in the process of extending the greeting to others when she gestured me to sit down saying, ‘please have a seat’. I quickly nodded in general direction of all others members and took my chair.

Chair: So Dhananjay, where do you work?
Me: Ma’am, I used to work. I quit in 2017 to prepare for this exam.

Chair (flipping DAF): Oh, yes I see. So tell me about your work. Your post was Area Sales Manager; were you like the boss of the region?
Me (smiled): Ma’am, there were many bosses above me. However I was indeed responsible for the entire region.

Chair: And how many people were working under you?
Me: Ma’am, I had a team of nine people directly reporting to me, who in turn had people reporting to them.

Chair: How did you deal with them – carrot or stick?
Me: Ma’am, carrot, stick and everything in between.

Chair (laughs): Tell me about this everything in between?
Me: Ma’am, it really depends on the person with whom I am working with. There are some people who can do the work with positive motivation, while some would need harsh words. While working, I have dealt with some people with whom you no option but to be tough and assertive, and then people who will not do any work if I am not extra polite.
Chair: There must have been an age difference between you and the rest of the team?
Me: Yes ma’am. I was the youngest one. The rest of team was between 25 and 50 at the time.
Chair: Do they teach you how to deal with such difference and behave around the team?
Me: Ma’am, I had almost 2 years of training before I got into this role. Our training begins with us in the most subordinate role and we spend couple of months in each role going up the hierarchy. The people in the system are aware of the age factor, but everyone is professional about it. There is not much issue with the age difference.

Chair (looks at DAF): You come from Etawah. That is the badlands area of UP?
Me (smiling): If you say so, ma’am.

Chair (laughs): Why, you don’t think so?
Me: Ma’am, actually the badlands area is on the other side of Chambal, in Madhya Pradesh. Etawah is on the plains side.

Chair: Have you or your family had any experience with the district administration there?
Me: No ma’am. I lived there only till age 14 and during that time me or my family had no direct experience. There were experiences with the police though.

Chair: What did you think of the police there?
Me: The police commands authority, but is also heavy handed.

Chair: Do you think the police needed to be tough?
Me: Ma’am, I think policing is a difficult job and certain people there are hardened. So police cannot do its job without being assertive and tough.

(Chairperson was very engaging and smiled often. I thought I was off to a good start)

M1: Dhananjay (looks at DAF)…where were you born?
Me: Sir, I was born in Ahladpur which is a village in Mainpuri district. However, I grew up in Etawah district which is closer to the village.

M1: Which school did you study in?
Me: Sir, I studied in St. Mary’s Inter College till eighth standard.

M1: Do you know any famous dacoits from your area?
Me: Sir, only Phoolan Devi comes to my mind.
M1 (laughs): Everyone knows Phoolan Devi, she was a member of Parliament.
Me: I am not aware of anyone else, sir.

M1: You studied at SRCC. What do people do after B.Com?
Me: Sir, people including my friends have gone on to do a variety of things after B.Com. Mostly people think CA is the only career option, but that’s not true. In fact, I got motivated to appear for civil services exam after seniors from my college cleared it. Till then, I used to be scared of the idea of preparing for it.

M1: What is your first preference?
Me: Sir, it’s Indian Foreign Service.
M1: Oh IFS…have you been abroad?
Me: Yes, sir. I have visited a few countries.

M1: Tell me which countries?
Me: Sir, I have been to Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia, Thailand, Nepal in Asia, and Germany, Belgium, and the Netherlands in Europe.
M1: Oh, the European countries must have been one trip?
Me: Yes sir, correct.

M1: What can you tell me about the people of Thailand?
Me: Sir, I found them to have a strong work ethic and very hard working. They are also very spiritual and religious.

M1: And what about Cambodia?
Me: Sir, Cambodians are very sweet and hardworking people. However, I felt that they have not been happy with the way their country has progressed.
M1: Why do you say so?
Me: Sir, Cambodia has Thailand and Vietnam as neighbours who have developed well in the last few decades. On the other hand, Cambodia saw violence and genocide under Khmer Rouge. Even lately, democracy in Cambodia has come under stress. The current Prime Minister Hun Sen has shut down all opposition and people have not not been able to express themselves. Hence there is a general sense of unhappiness, that’s what I felt.

M1: Ok (scanning the DAF again) you have done a lot of things in college. You swim? Do you swim casually or competitively? (had written under interests)
Me: Sir, I swim casually.
M1: But where do you swim?
Me: Sir, my society has a swimming pool.
M1: Which society do you live in Delhi that has a swimming pool?
Me: Sir, I live in Noida.
M1 (reading the DAF): Oh right Noida.

M1 (continues looking at the DAF): Why do you read maps? (had written under interests)
Me: Sir, my father got me an atlas on my birthday when I must be six. He challenged me to find our district on a map with a rupee as a reward. I did that, and became interested in reading maps since then.
M1: Which atlas was this?
Me: Sir, it was either Oxford or Longman, I don’t remember exactly which one.
M1 (starts laughing and looks at M2): That’s the same atlas we had, no? (also gestures to M2, indicating he was done).
(M1 was also the most encouraging member of the lot. He would smile a lot, and nod along as you answer. I thought this ship was sailing smoothly and probably got more comfortable than I should have)M2: You studied at SRCC which is a good college. Why do our students want to go abroad to study? The foreign exchange outflow is xx (don’t remember figure he quoted) billion dollars every year which can stay in India. What policies do you think our government should pursue in this scenario?
Me: Sir, I believe a lot of the students would happily stay in India and pursue their studies. The competition for any prestitigous institutes such as IITs and IIMs in India is huge. Having said that, a lot of students want to go abroad for an international experience and exposure. The government can pursue policies to increase intake of international students to become more global. Also, the faculty at colleges aborad are more renowned and students are motivated to learn from the masters of their respective fields. Here too, the government can focus on bringing in renowned faculties to Indian universities, for which the Ministry of Human Resource Development already has a scheme. Sir, I believe the methodology of teaching and practical approach to learning that is followed in universities abroad is found lacking in India. The government is already working on it by increasing autonomy but more needs to happen.

(M2 seemed visibily dissatisfied at this answer. On later introspection, I realised I had made an error in judgment. He wanted me to list why students want to go abroad from push factors, and not pull factors like I had focused upon). 

Me (continuing after a 2 second pause): Sir, in most Indian universities there is a lack of culture of debate and reasoning as well.
M2 (laughing): You mean lack of freedom of speech? But don’t you think DU and JNU have enough?
Me: (not wanting to tread these waters as I had burned myself in a mock before) Yes sir. I think they have enough.
M2 (thankfully changed topic): We were talking of carrot and stick policies earlier. Recently we had a terror attack which can be linked to Pakistan (this was post-Pulwama and pre-Balakot).What do you we need to use, carrot or stick?
Me: Sir, Pakistan has been a sponsor of terror against India for long. There might be a time in future for carrot policies but it is not now. We have to continue with stick policies until Pakistan mends its ways.

(M2 indicated he was done. I knew I had slipped with the first question, and it would cost me a bit. I brushed this feeling aside, and tried to focus on the rest of the interview)
M3 (goes for a yorker, and asks bluntly): How is IP6 better?
Me (after a pause): Sir…are you asking about the internet protocol?
M3: Yes, yes. How is Internet Protocol 6 better?
Me (knew vaguely that with IPv6 there could be infinite domain addresses or something but decided this wasn’t the time for demonstrating half-baked knowledge): Sorry sir, I am not aware exactly how IPv6 is better than IPv4.

M3: What is PAN?
Me: Sir, do you mean Permanent Account Number?
M3: Yes, yes.
Me: Sir, PAN is used by the government of India to identify all the tax payers.

M3 (flipping through DAF): You follow international affairs. What do you know about Mueller investigation?
Me (disclaimer: been following American politics closely since Obama heydays): Sir, after evidence of Russian interference in USA’s 2016 election surfaced, their Justice Department appointed a Special Counsel headed by Robert Mueller. It has been tasked with investigating any links that Americans might have had with Russia and tampering of the electoral process.

M3: Has there been any new development on this front?
Me: Sir, a number of people from President Trump’s campaign team and government have been indicted by Special Counsel. This includes Michael Flynn, Paul Manafort, and Roger Stone. However, other than formal indictments, there have been no leaks with respect to Mueller investigation. Everything else remains a mystery and ground for political theatre by both Democrats and Republicans.

M3: Why is the Congress divided currently?
Me: Sir, President Trump has been asking money to build a wall along the southern border with Mexico, to stem illegal immigration and crime. The Congress, which includes House of Representative and Senate, has not been able to reach an agreement with respect to this.

M3: Who controls the House?
Me: Sir, since January the Democrats have control of the House as they won enough seats in 2018 mid-terms.
M3: Who is their leader, a man or a woman?
Me: Sir, Speaker of the House is Nancy Pelosi, who is a woman.

M3: How is their Senate split?
Me: Sir, the Republicans control the Senate as they have 53 seats. The Democrats have 45 and there are two independents who vote with Democrats mostly. So we can say its 53-47 in favour of Republicans.

(M3 indicated he was done. I also saw Chairperson looking at the clock, my time was running out.)

M4: So you wish to join IFS…I will name four countries and you tell me what is going on there.
(I nodded in affirmative) UK, France, Germany, Italy.
Me: Sir, Britain is consumed by Brexit at the moment. Prime Minister May has worked out a deal with EU but it has not found support in the Parliament. The major disagreements are over the question of Irish border, rights of citizens and the divorce bill with EU.
In France, the current government led by President Macron is facing the gilet jaunes protests (I had learned how to pronounce it correctly beforehand).The protests first began against the increase of tax on fuel but soon became a movement against inequalities, daily struggles of middle-class over living standards, and high burden of taxes on average citizens. It has also come to represent a movement against the presidency of Macron.
In Germany, Chancellor Angela Merkel has announced that she will be stepping down from her party leadership and Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer will be taking over the leadership of CDU. This is at a crucial point for Germany as Merkel’s policy of opening the country to refugees from Middle-East in 2015 was resented by many. This had renewed support for far right parties such as Alternative for Deutschland, which have found place in German parliament in recent elections.
In Italy, Prime Minister Matteo Salvini (wrong, he’s Deputy) and his Five-Star movement (again wrong, not his) are now leading the government. They are currently in face-off with EU over the budget. Italy has been under austerity measures to control wasteful government spending but has tried to defy EU over this. EU has already come under strain due to Brexit and another pillar of EU undermining it is not good for its future.

M4: Ok tell me this. Representing India abroad means representing India’s foreign policy. What do you think are contradictions in India’s foreign policy?
Me (felt this was a broad and tricky question as I couldn’t gauge which direction he wanted me to take, also realised my throat was dry after monologuing the last answer): Sir, can I have a glass of water while I think this over?
M4 (smiling, with a gotcha): Yes, yes, sure.
Me (took a big nice gulp and thought of ways to tackle this, and paused for a good five seconds): Sir, may I begin?
M4: Yes, yes, go on.
Me: Sir, India had been a champion of non-aligned movement since its independence. However, post-liberalisation there has been a shift in India’s foreign policy towards strategic autonomy. India has become closer to USA in the past decade as it looks to fuel its economic growth, while still maintaining a close relationship with Russia. Similarly, India has broadening its its cooperation with China, moving away from its past policy of no engagement until border talks are settled…

M4: That’s alright, but not what I wanted. Let me give you a tip. India has both ancient wisdom and modern ideas, hence there are contradictions. How can we use these to represent India abroad? For example, yoga has been one such way.
Me (I had been played, was thinking fast for ideas to recover, also saw Chairperson looking at the clock behind me. Knew this is probably the last thing I’ll get to say): Sir, India’s world view has been ‘vasudhaiva kutumbakam’ since ancient times. The same has found its way in our foreign policy, we have tried cultivating great working relationship with all countries irrespective of ideology. Similarly sir, like you mentioned, ancient wisdom such as yoga has been used to represent India abroad. I also see Indian cuisine having the same potential (also went what?! in my mind as I said this) as Indian diaspora spreads throughout the world and people are more eager to embrace sustainable lifestyles such as veganism. Food can be a way to combine our ancient wisdom and modern ideas to provide another dimension to our foreign policy (I said the last line slowly as I wished this to be over now.)

M4 (looked eager to continue but Chairperson gestured at the time): Ok Dhananjay, that will be all.

I looked at the Chairperson who smiled and said: Your interview is over, you can leave now.
I thanked everyone for their time, and walked out. 

And phew! The entire process, starting from prelims almost 9 months ago, was over just like that. The next forty-five days were even harder as I replayed the interview again and nitpicked on smallest things. I knew I hadn’t done my absolute best and I will not be crossing 200 for sure. And what if what I thought of myself during the interview is not what the panel thought of me.

This was settled when the results were declared and I got rank 95. I couldn’t have done so well in mains to break into top 100. I felt I had given my all for mains, but the little voice inside me told me that people would have definitely written better than I had. In interview, I knew those two questions for sure will affect my marks. If I had gotten low marks, it would also probably be an issue with perception, articulation, or mannerisms.

I got 190/275, which is a decent score. The highest marks for the past few years have been 206. A 160 mark interview would have pushed me at 300+ rank and 150 would have had me crying in the shower.

Medical test

My medical check up was scheduled next day at Lok Nayak near Daryaganj. Carry at least 10-12 photographs, they just keep asking for those.
Hat tip to people with glasses: get your number checked again before the interview, if you haven’t gotten that done in a long time. Get new glasses made if the number has changed. If your number is above -4 or -6 (not sure), you will be referred to an eye hospital and have to come again on a different day (mine was 4 days later after main checkup). This is called a “special board” but fear not, they are only checking for progressive myopia. If you don’t have it, you will be declared fit for all services.

Source- His blog
Dhananjay Singh Yadav Quora- Click here
Dhananjay Singh Yadav Blog (English, Agastya)- Click here

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